Discussion:
A simple question
(too old to reply)
RJack
2010-02-21 18:25:11 UTC
Permalink
I have a simple question. The United States Copyright Act, 17 USC sets
out what comprises copyright infringement:

"§ 501. Infringement of copyright

(a) Anyone who violates any of the exclusive rights of the copyright
owner as provided by sections 106 through 122 or of the author as
provided in section 106A(a), or who imports copies or phonorecords into
the United States in violation of section 602, is an infringer of the
copyright or right of the author, as the case may be. For purposes of
this chapter (other than section 506), any reference to copyright shall
be deemed to include the rights conferred by section 106A(a). As used in
this subsection, the term “anyone” includes any State, any
instrumentality of a State, and any officer or employee of a State or
instrumentality of a State acting in his or her official capacity. Any
State, and any such instrumentality, officer, or employee, shall be
subject to the provisions of this title in the same manner and to the
same extent as any nongovernmental entity.

(b) The legal or beneficial owner of an exclusive right under a
copyright is entitled, subject to the requirements of section 411, to
institute an action for any infringement of that particular right
committed while he or she is the owner of it. The court may require such
owner to serve written notice of the action with a copy of the complaint
upon any person shown, by the records of the Copyright Office or
otherwise, to have or claim an interest in the copyright, and shall
require that such notice be served upon any person whose interest is
likely to be affected by a decision in the case. The court may require
the joinder, and shall permit the intervention, of any person having or
claiming an interest in the copyright...".


How can someone infringe on another's copyrighted work without
violating one the specific exclusive rights as described in sections 106
through 122 and section 106(A)? The answer to this question could
resolve many disagreements among open source license debaters.

I can personally imagine no situation where the above quoted section
would a allow a charge of infringement without actually violating one of
the enumerated exclusive rights.

Sincerely,
Rjack :)
Alan Mackenzie
2010-02-22 07:41:17 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Rjack,
Post by RJack
I have a simple question. The United States Copyright Act, 17 USC sets
"? 501. Infringement of copyright
[ 24 lines of legal text snipped. ]
Post by RJack
How can someone infringe on another's copyrighted work without
violating one the specific exclusive rights as described in sections
106 through 122 and section 106(A)? The answer to this question could
resolve many disagreements among open source license debaters.
Maybe it could, maybe it can't. You'd get a better quality of debate if
you posted the question on a legal forum.
Post by RJack
I can personally imagine no situation where the above quoted section
would a allow a charge of infringement without actually violating one
of the enumerated exclusive rights.
Neither can I, to be honest. But that's mainly because I'm not
interested in the minutiae of a foreign country's somewhat arcane
copyright statutes.

Like I said, you'd be better posting the question on a USA legal forum,
not gnu.misc.discuss.
Post by RJack
Sincerely,
Rjack :)
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
RJack
2010-02-22 16:18:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Mackenzie
Hi, Rjack,
Post by RJack
I have a simple question. The United States Copyright Act, 17 USC
"? 501. Infringement of copyright
[ 24 lines of legal text snipped. ]
Post by RJack
How can someone infringe on another's copyrighted work without
violating one the specific exclusive rights as described in
sections 106 through 122 and section 106(A)? The answer to this
question could resolve many disagreements among open source license
debaters.
Maybe it could, maybe it can't. You'd get a better quality of debate
if you posted the question on a legal forum.
MAYBE frogs wouldn't bump their asses IF they had wings.
Post by Alan Mackenzie
Post by RJack
I can personally imagine no situation where the above quoted
section would a allow a charge of infringement without actually
violating one of the enumerated exclusive rights.
Neither can I, to be honest. But that's mainly because I'm not
interested in the minutiae of a foreign country's somewhat arcane
copyright statutes.
Why not then, just... STFU?
Post by Alan Mackenzie
Like I said, you'd be better posting the question on a USA legal
forum, not gnu.misc.discuss.
Since you're not the moderator of this group, I'm fairly sure that you
fully understand that I don't really give a rat's fuck what you think
about my posting in this group.

Why not trot down to your elite foreign library and find that "misc" is
a common abbreviation for the word "miscellaneous". Next, take down a
copy of the Oxford English Dictionary and feast your condescending eyes
on the definition of the word "miscellaneous".

Your pathetic whining because you can't censor what is posted in this
"miscellaneous" newsgroup is just that -- pathetic.

Sincerely,
RJack :)


Have a nice day Alan!
_ _
|R| |R|
|J| /^^^\ |J|
_|a|_ (| "o" |) _|a|_
_| |c| | _ (_---_) _ | |c| |_
| | |k| ||-| _| |_ |-|| |k| | |
| | / \ | |
\ / / /(. .)\ \ \ /
\ / / / | . | \ \ \ /
\ \/ / ||Y|| \ \/ /
\__/ || || \__/
() ()
|| ||
ooO Ooo
Hyman Rosen
2010-02-22 16:55:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by RJack
How can someone infringe on another's copyrighted work without
violating one the specific exclusive rights as described in sections 106
through 122 and section 106(A)? The answer to this question could
resolve many disagreements among open source license debaters.
Why do you believe that someone is claiming copyright infringement
outside of the enumerated rights of 17 USC 106? Even the FSF's wrong
opinion about dynamic linking rests on the incorrect belief that it
involves creating a derivative work, which is one of the enumerated
exclusive rights. The claims are about copying and distributing works
without permission of their rights holders, just as in 17 USC 106.

You seem very confused. Perhaps it is time for you to mention
preemption again?
Alexander Terekhov
2010-02-22 17:27:58 UTC
Permalink
Hyman Rosen wrote:
[...]
Post by Hyman Rosen
Why do you believe that someone is claiming copyright infringement
outside of the enumerated rights of 17 USC 106? Even the FSF's wrong
Hyman, why^W you're retardedly jumping to the conclusion bypassing the
analysis of condition v. covenant v. scope restriction conundrum, why?

regards,
alexander.

P.S. "I'm insufficiently motivated to go set up a GNU/Linux system
so that I can do the builds."

Hyman Rosen <***@mail.com> The Silliest GPL 'Advocate'

P.P.S. "Of course correlation implies causation! Without this
fundamental principle, no science would ever make any progress."

Hyman Rosen <***@mail.com> The Silliest GPL 'Advocate'

--
http://gng.z505.com/index.htm
(GNG is a derecursive recursive derecursion which pwns GNU since it can
be infinitely looped as GNGNGNGNG...NGNGNG... and can be said backwards
too, whereas GNU cannot.)
Hyman Rosen
2010-02-22 17:28:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Terekhov
Hyman, why^W you're retardedly jumping to the conclusion bypassing the
analysis of condition v. covenant v. scope restriction conundrum, why?
There is no conundrum, just twisting and spinning by anti-GPL
cranks who want to convince people that violation of a license
does not constitute copyright infringement. The only person I
know of who was trying to fight that fight has just given up
and agreed to pay a $100,000 penalty for that point of view.
Alexander Terekhov
2010-02-22 17:41:28 UTC
Permalink
Hyman Rosen wrote:
[...]
Post by Hyman Rosen
cranks who want to convince people that violation of a license
does not constitute copyright infringement. The only person I
Generally speaking, violation of a license constitutes copyright
infringement in pretty much the same way (zero, zilch, none) as
violation of a renting license constitutes a trespass, you retard Hyman.

regards,
alexander.

P.S. "I'm insufficiently motivated to go set up a GNU/Linux system
so that I can do the builds."

Hyman Rosen <***@mail.com> The Silliest GPL 'Advocate'

P.P.S. "Of course correlation implies causation! Without this
fundamental principle, no science would ever make any progress."

Hyman Rosen <***@mail.com> The Silliest GPL 'Advocate'

--
http://gng.z505.com/index.htm
(GNG is a derecursive recursive derecursion which pwns GNU since it can
be infinitely looped as GNGNGNGNG...NGNGNG... and can be said backwards
too, whereas GNU cannot.)
Hyman Rosen
2010-02-22 17:43:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Terekhov
Generally speaking, violation of a license constitutes copyright
infringement in pretty much the same way (zero, zilch, none) as
violation of a renting license constitutes a trespass, you retard Hyman.
<http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/opinions/08-1001.pdf>
Copyright holders who engage in open source licensing have
the right to control the modification and distribution of
copyrighted material. ... Copyright licenses are designed
to support the right to exclude; money damages alone do not
support or enforce that right. The choice to exact
consideration in the form of compliance with the open source
requirements of disclosure and explanation of changes, rather
than as a dollar-denominated fee, is entitled to no less legal
recognition.

Court vs. crank. Court wins.
Alexander Terekhov
2010-02-22 17:55:34 UTC
Permalink
Hyman Rosen wrote:

[... choice to exact consideration in the form of compliance ...]

That's contract law claim, not tort. WHY ARE YOU BEING SUCH AN IDIOT
HYMAN?

regards,
alexander.

P.S. "I'm insufficiently motivated to go set up a GNU/Linux system
so that I can do the builds."

Hyman Rosen <***@mail.com> The Silliest GPL 'Advocate'

P.P.S. "Of course correlation implies causation! Without this
fundamental principle, no science would ever make any progress."

Hyman Rosen <***@mail.com> The Silliest GPL 'Advocate'

--
http://gng.z505.com/index.htm
(GNG is a derecursive recursive derecursion which pwns GNU since it can
be infinitely looped as GNGNGNGNG...NGNGNG... and can be said backwards
too, whereas GNU cannot.)
Hyman Rosen
2010-02-22 18:02:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Terekhov
That's contract law claim, not tort. WHY ARE YOU BEING SUCH AN IDIOT
HYMAN?
<http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/opinions/08-1001.pdf>
Having determined that the terms of the Artistic License
are enforceable copyright conditions, ...
Alexander Terekhov
2010-02-22 18:13:49 UTC
Permalink
Hyman Rosen wrote:

[... "enforceable copyright condition" ...]

Hyman, please formulate what is "enforceable copyright condition", you
retard.

regards,
alexander.

P.S. "I'm insufficiently motivated to go set up a GNU/Linux system
so that I can do the builds."

Hyman Rosen <***@mail.com> The Silliest GPL 'Advocate'

P.P.S. "Of course correlation implies causation! Without this
fundamental principle, no science would ever make any progress."

Hyman Rosen <***@mail.com> The Silliest GPL 'Advocate'

--
http://gng.z505.com/index.htm
(GNG is a derecursive recursive derecursion which pwns GNU since it can
be infinitely looped as GNGNGNGNG...NGNGNG... and can be said backwards
too, whereas GNU cannot.)
Hyman Rosen
2010-02-22 18:20:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Terekhov
Hyman, please formulate what is "enforceable copyright condition", you
retard.
Copying and distributing without permission from the rights
holders, with such permission expressed in the license they
may offer.
Alexander Terekhov
2010-02-22 18:26:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hyman Rosen
Post by Alexander Terekhov
Hyman, please formulate what is "enforceable copyright condition", you
retard.
Copying and distributing without permission from the rights
holders, with such permission expressed in the license they
may offer.
Hyman, why you're retardedly jumping to the conclusion bypassing the
analysis of condition v. covenant v. scope restriction conundrum?

regards,
alexander.

P.S. "I'm insufficiently motivated to go set up a GNU/Linux system
so that I can do the builds."

Hyman Rosen <***@mail.com> The Silliest GPL 'Advocate'

P.P.S. "Of course correlation implies causation! Without this
fundamental principle, no science would ever make any progress."

Hyman Rosen <***@mail.com> The Silliest GPL 'Advocate'

--
http://gng.z505.com/index.htm
(GNG is a derecursive recursive derecursion which pwns GNU since it can
be infinitely looped as GNGNGNGNG...NGNGNG... and can be said backwards
too, whereas GNU cannot.)
Hyman Rosen
2010-02-22 18:37:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Terekhov
Hyman, why you're retardedly jumping to the conclusion bypassing the
analysis of condition v. covenant v. scope restriction conundrum?
<http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/opinions/08-1001.pdf>
Having determined that the terms of the Artistic License
are enforceable copyright conditions, ...
RJack
2010-02-22 21:18:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hyman Rosen
Post by RJack
How can someone infringe on another's copyrighted work without
violating one the specific exclusive rights as described in
sections 106 through 122 and section 106(A)? The answer to this
question could resolve many disagreements among open source license
debaters.
Why do you believe that someone is claiming copyright infringement
outside of the enumerated rights of 17 USC 106? Even the FSF's wrong
opinion about dynamic linking rests on the incorrect belief that it
involves creating a derivative work, which is one of the enumerated
exclusive rights. The claims are about copying and distributing
works without permission of their rights holders, just as in 17 USC
106.
You seem very confused. Perhaps it is time for you to mention
preemption again?
I was addressing the Jacobsen decision and "rights" of attribution. Me
thinks *you're* confused. Moron.

Sincerely,
RJack :)

"Captain Moglen scared them out of the water!"
http://www.fini.tv/blog/finishing_line_files/a44f9390355368f87dc47b7ec094f93e-36.php

ROFL. ROFL. ROFL.
Hyman Rosen
2010-02-22 21:21:50 UTC
Permalink
I was addressing the Jacobsen decision and "rights" of attribution. Me
thinks *you're* confused. Moron.
There is no right of attribution in the United States.
It is simply that permission is required from rights
holders to copy and distribute works, and attribution
(or GPL requirements, or other such things) is required
by those rights holders if you wish to receive such
permission.

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