Discussion:
Patent Bubble
(too old to reply)
Alexander Terekhov
2011-01-15 13:15:37 UTC
Permalink
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/011011-patent-winners-ibm-apple.html

-----
The research firm reports that 2010 was a record year for patents. In
all, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office issued 219,614 patents – which
is 31% more patents than were issued in 2009.

“The tremendous increase in patent issues in 2010 suggests that so far
the economy doesn’t appear to have slowed patent flow significantly in
the U.S.,” said Darlene Slaughter, general manager of IFI, in a
statement. “Another important factor is the stepped up effort of the
USPTO to improve turnaround times and its five-year strategic plan to
increase efficiencies and reduce pendency. The bottom line: There is
still a backlog of patents pending, but the number of grants continues
to grow even after a period of economic downturn.”

Follow Ann Bednarz on Twitter: http://twitter.com/annbednarz

Read more about infrastructure management in Network World's
Infrastructure Management section.
-----

regards,
alexander.
--
http://gng.z505.com/index.htm
(GNG is a derecursive recursive derecursion which pwns GNU since it can
be infinitely looped as GNGNGNGNG...NGNGNG... and can be said backwards
too, whereas GNU cannot.)
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2011-01-16 02:43:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Terekhov
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/011011-patent-winners-ibm-apple.html
-----
The research firm reports that 2010 was a record year for patents. In
all, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office issued 219,614 patents – which
is 31% more patents than were issued in 2009.
-----
No wonder the US is going downhill in innovation.
Snit
2011-01-16 02:50:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Alexander Terekhov
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/011011-patent-winners-ibm-apple.html
-----
The research firm reports that 2010 was a record year for patents. In
all, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office issued 219,614 patents ? which
is 31% more patents than were issued in 2009.
-----
No wonder the US is going downhill in innovation.
What evidence is there that it is?
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Clogwog
2011-01-16 15:39:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snit
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Alexander Terekhov
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/011011-patent-winners-ibm-apple.html
-----
The research firm reports that 2010 was a record year for patents. In
all, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office issued 219,614 patents ? which
is 31% more patents than were issued in 2009.
-----
No wonder the US is going downhill in innovation.
What evidence is there that it is?
http://downhillmountainbike.com/american-downhill-mountain-bikes.html

;-)
Snit
2011-01-16 15:51:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clogwog
Post by Snit
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Alexander Terekhov
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/011011-patent-winners-ibm-apple.html
-----
The research firm reports that 2010 was a record year for patents. In
all, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office issued 219,614 patents ? which
is 31% more patents than were issued in 2009.
-----
No wonder the US is going downhill in innovation.
What evidence is there that it is?
http://downhillmountainbike.com/american-downhill-mountain-bikes.html
;-)
Thanks!
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Clogwog
2011-01-16 16:57:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snit
Post by Clogwog
Post by Snit
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Alexander Terekhov
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/011011-patent-winners-ibm-apple.html
-----
The research firm reports that 2010 was a record year for patents. In
all, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office issued 219,614 patents ? which
is 31% more patents than were issued in 2009.
-----
No wonder the US is going downhill in innovation.
What evidence is there that it is?
http://downhillmountainbike.com/american-downhill-mountain-bikes.html
;-)
Thanks!
GARY *FISH* (ER) started this sport! <lol>
chrisv
2011-01-17 14:02:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Alexander Terekhov
The research firm reports that 2010 was a record year for patents. In
all, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office issued 219,614 patents ? which
is 31% more patents than were issued in 2009.
-----
No wonder the US is going downhill in innovation.
I don't know about that... Our wealthy elite seem to be quite adept
at fscking the masses out of trillions of dollars. One "bubble" after
another... "Government" bail-outs...
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2011-01-17 23:56:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by chrisv
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Alexander Terekhov
The research firm reports that 2010 was a record year for patents. In
all, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office issued 219,614 patents ? which
is 31% more patents than were issued in 2009.
-----
No wonder the US is going downhill in innovation.
I don't know about that... Our wealthy elite seem to be quite adept
at fscking the masses out of trillions of dollars.
Less and less of the rising tide that is supposed to float all boats.
High Plains Thumper
2011-01-21 01:30:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by chrisv
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
No wonder the US is going downhill in innovation.
I don't know about that... Our wealthy elite seem to be quite
adept at fscking the masses out of trillions of dollars.
Less and less of the rising tide that is supposed to float all
boats.
It's just another way of discouraging innovation. Someone writes a
shareware programme from scratch and gets hammered for violating
patented and undisclosed prior art.
--
HPT
Rex Ballard
2011-01-18 02:57:37 UTC
Permalink
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/011011-patent-winners-ibm-apple...
The research firm reports that 2010 was a record year for patents. In
all, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office issued 219,614 patents – which
is 31% more patents than were issued in 2009.
These days, a lot of larger companies are filing patent applications
for almost anything, even if they don't think the patent will be
granted, just to make sure that their ideas, and all prior art related
to it, don't get patented by some guy who "Invents" on a kitchen table
and has a lawyer who will work for 1/3rd of any lawsuit judgements and
settlements he can collect.

The problem is that the patent office isn't funded for this level of
activity, so many patents that probably shouldn't be granted are being
granted - they just aren't enforceable.

Microsoft was recently sued for $180 million for technology that had
been Open Source for almost a decade, including much of the source
code for Open Office.

Most of the time, a patent isn't all that valuable by itself.
Something really innovative and revolutionary, that is critical to the
successes of something like a $100 compact computer charger, might be
worth $5 each. Most, however, are worth a penny or two per $1000 of
revenue earned, and even then, only the newest and best ideas get
rewarded.

The problem for a patent holder is that he has to file for the patent,
prove to the patent office that it's an original idea, and then get
the patent. Once they get the patent, if they want to make money on
the patent, they have to get some company to pay for the license to
use the patent (or sell the rights outright). In most cases, the
inventor is an employee of a corporation, and the corporation owns the
rights to the patent, because the employee signed an agreement giving
them that ownership when they were first hired.

The problem with attempting to go after a company who is using
something like your invention, but you haven't mass-marketed your own
implementation yet, is that it is quit difficult to prove that they
actually did steal your idea. At best, you could nullify each other's
patent claims, or if they haven't patented their implementation, they
could nullify your patent, because they could prove that it had been
"Intuitively Derived".

On the other hand, if you are part of a large corporation, and you
come up with a solution to a problem without using someone else's
solution, your company will probably "harvest" the solution and file a
patent on it. The main reason is not because they want to sue someone
else, but because they don't want to get sued themselves.

Inventions rarely happen in a vacuum. Often, a vendor is trying to
solve a customer's problem. The customer describes the problem, and
asks the vendor to come up with a solution. The vendor devises a
solution, and then give the customer permission to use that solution.
Unless the vendor is a full time employee, who has signed an
intellectual property rights agreement, the vendor owns the
intellectual property.

But the Customer might be so delighted with the solution that he tells
others about it. If he tells another vendor, who is a competitor, and
it's all verbal, it becomes very difficult to establish a chain of
custody. If the competitor is less than ethical, (often just an
employee of a competitor who is looking to get ahead), there is the
risk that the competitor will develop the same idea, and then file for
a patent themselves, not knowing that a prior version exists.

One of the reasons for establishing the patent office was to provide
proof of first filing. If two companies filed similar applications at
different times, then it could be established that the first company
should get the patent and the second patent application should be
denied.

On the other hand, if two companies file at nearly the same time, how
can you tell which was the "true inventor" and which is the knock-
off? In reality, you can't. The patent office assumes that since
both companies came up with the same idea at nearly the same time,
that there must be enough common information available to both
companies that both would have "intuitively derived" the invention -
therefore neither is entitled to a patent.

If you look at some of the biggest patent holders, they don't even try
to enforce their patents, they just "cross license" patent portfolios
to make their "umbrella" larger, making it much harder for some
unethical lawyer with a kitchen table inventor to sue any of the
companies under the umbrella for huge amounts of money.

Not only do these huge patent umbrellas work for huge companies, but
they also work for the smaller organization as well. A group with a
large umbrella might gladly extend their umbrella to a small company
willing to cross-license their patents to everyone in the umbrella.

These complex agreements can get very interesting for a company that
has 100 or 200 inventions it wants to enforce against a manufacturer
who his protected by a big umbrella. The risk is that going after
such a company will trigger a review of the plaintiff's patents, and
could result in not only nullification of a patent, but even the
possibility of proving that a patent application was fraudulent.

Remember, the patent application doesn't just put the idea being
patented on file, it also puts all PRIOR ART related to that patent on
file as well. Most larger companies want to file "high quality"
patent applications filled with LOTS of prior art. Even though this
increases the risk that their patent application will be denied, it
makes it impossible for any other company to enforce a patent, not
only on the invention being applied for, but any prior art known to be
in the public domain.

In addition to all of this activity, there is also the Open Invention
network, which files patents that are similar to Open Source.
Everybody can use them, but they can't file patents of their own.

And strange at it seems, there is cross-licensing to expand protection
of Linux and other Open Source software under that huge umbrella.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2011-01-18 03:02:13 UTC
Permalink
In message
Post by Rex Ballard
These days, a lot of larger companies are filing patent applications
for almost anything, even if they don't think the patent will be
granted, just to make sure that their ideas, and all prior art related
to it, don't get patented by some guy who "Invents" on a kitchen table
and has a lawyer who will work for 1/3rd of any lawsuit judgements and
settlements he can collect.
However, figures show that patents mainly benefit incumbent players in
markets, not innovators.
Post by Rex Ballard
Most of the time, a patent isn't all that valuable by itself.
Something really innovative and revolutionary, that is critical to the
successes of something like a $100 compact computer charger, might be
worth $5 each. Most, however, are worth a penny or two per $1000 of
revenue earned, and even then, only the newest and best ideas get
rewarded.
As they say, ideas are a dime a dozen. Anybody can have an idea, the true
innovator is the one who executes successfully.

Remember the old saying: anything worth doing is 5% inspiration and 95%
perspiration. So patents can only “protect” at best 5% of what is worth
doing.
Post by Rex Ballard
The problem with attempting to go after a company who is using
something like your invention, but you haven't mass-marketed your own
implementation yet, is that it is quit difficult to prove that they
actually did steal your idea.
The patent trolls don’t seem to have much trouble with that.
Homer
2011-01-18 13:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In message
Post by Rex Ballard
These days, a lot of larger companies are filing patent applications
for almost anything, even if they don't think the patent will be
granted, just to make sure that their ideas, and all prior art
related to it, don't get patented by some guy who "Invents" on a
kitchen table and has a lawyer who will work for 1/3rd of any lawsuit
judgements and settlements he can collect.
However, figures show that patents mainly benefit incumbent players in
markets, not innovators.
And many of those incumbents are "non-practising entities" who don't
innovate anything at all, they merely harvest others innovation, then
use it in an extortion racket. In fact most of today's so-called
"innovation" is just meaningless junk peddled by opportunists, then
paraded around like cattle in an auction.
--
K. | Ancient Chinese Proverb:
http://slated.org | "The road to Hell is paved with
Fedora 8 (Werewolf) on sky | ignorant twits who know nothing
kernel 2.6.31.5, up 24 days | about GNU/Linux."
Snit
2011-01-18 16:26:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Homer
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In message
Post by Rex Ballard
These days, a lot of larger companies are filing patent applications
for almost anything, even if they don't think the patent will be
granted, just to make sure that their ideas, and all prior art
related to it, don't get patented by some guy who "Invents" on a
kitchen table and has a lawyer who will work for 1/3rd of any lawsuit
judgements and settlements he can collect.
However, figures show that patents mainly benefit incumbent players in
markets, not innovators.
And many of those incumbents are "non-practising entities" who don't
innovate anything at all, they merely harvest others innovation, then
use it in an extortion racket. In fact most of today's so-called
"innovation" is just meaningless junk peddled by opportunists, then
paraded around like cattle in an auction.
On one hand you whine about how people control IP... they should not. In
part this is so OSS can freely use these ideas and techniques.

On the other hand you whine about how MS uses others IP and *buys* these
ideas and techniques.

How can it be fine, in your mind, for people to freely do what you whine
about MS *paying* to do? Your view in not consistent.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Kari Laine
2011-01-20 17:09:22 UTC
Permalink
Hi Snit,
Post by Snit
Post by Homer
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In message
Post by Rex Ballard
These days, a lot of larger companies are filing patent applications
for almost anything, even if they don't think the patent will be
granted, just to make sure that their ideas, and all prior art
related to it, don't get patented by some guy who "Invents" on a
kitchen table and has a lawyer who will work for 1/3rd of any lawsuit
judgements and settlements he can collect.
However, figures show that patents mainly benefit incumbent players in
markets, not innovators.
And many of those incumbents are "non-practising entities" who don't
innovate anything at all, they merely harvest others innovation, then
use it in an extortion racket. In fact most of today's so-called
"innovation" is just meaningless junk peddled by opportunists, then
paraded around like cattle in an auction.
On one hand you whine about how people control IP... they should not. In
part this is so OSS can freely use these ideas and techniques.
On the other hand you whine about how MS uses others IP and *buys* these
ideas and techniques.
How can it be fine, in your mind, for people to freely do what you whine
about MS *paying* to do? Your view in not consistent.
please read this book

http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm

then come back to tell that patent system is not rotten. You might also
try to critize the authors - though I think that would not take you far.
Content of that book seems to be really though out.

Microsoft is incumbetent Monopoly. It counts it's future now to be able
to create a lot of patents it can use in cross licensing (or assured
mutual destruction from the cold war time) and extort license fees from
companies as it is already doing with Linux. It is horrible, me thinks,
that Microsoft gets money for the good work open source makes. And
probably uses part of that money to combat open source and Linux in
particular.

Note Microsoft all the time points out the number of patents it has got
- how about quality and innovation? Could it be that they try to through
existing solutions and trying to patent things they have nothing to in
invention department.

Also after reading above mentioned book. I have one question.

USA has had strong IP laws quite long. Now it seems patenting is
extended to everything possible. Therefore there are lot of patents and
copyrighted material.

Now USA pressures developing countries and India and China to pass same
IP legistlation USA has, making it's patents enforceable in those
countries. How could innovation happen in those countries when
everything is blocked by patents hold by USA? Bill Gates has himself
said (read the book) that if now existing patent system would have
existed at the time personal computing was born the whole business would
be in total standstill(please read the book for exact words).
How are those countries to be able to develop software industry - if
they erect USA patent system - no way.

After reading the book I can't stop thinking that this is big
imperialism movement going on. And I don't like it. But it is probably
ok - and I cannot make difference any way....


Best Regards
Kari
Snit
2011-01-20 18:23:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kari Laine
Hi Snit,
Post by Snit
Post by Homer
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In message
Post by Rex Ballard
These days, a lot of larger companies are filing patent applications
for almost anything, even if they don't think the patent will be
granted, just to make sure that their ideas, and all prior art
related to it, don't get patented by some guy who "Invents" on a
kitchen table and has a lawyer who will work for 1/3rd of any lawsuit
judgements and settlements he can collect.
However, figures show that patents mainly benefit incumbent players in
markets, not innovators.
And many of those incumbents are "non-practising entities" who don't
innovate anything at all, they merely harvest others innovation, then
use it in an extortion racket. In fact most of today's so-called
"innovation" is just meaningless junk peddled by opportunists, then
paraded around like cattle in an auction.
On one hand you whine about how people control IP... they should not. In
part this is so OSS can freely use these ideas and techniques.
On the other hand you whine about how MS uses others IP and *buys* these
ideas and techniques.
How can it be fine, in your mind, for people to freely do what you whine
about MS *paying* to do? Your view in not consistent.
please read this book
http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm
then come back to tell that patent system is not rotten.
I never said it was to my liking. I also think health care in the US is
handled very, very poorly - but I would not suggest doing away with health
care as the solution.
Post by Kari Laine
You might also try to critize the authors - though I think that would not take
you far. Content of that book seems to be really though out.
Microsoft is incumbetent Monopoly.
It does have an effective monopoly, but even monopolies cannot outcompete
*free*. The railroads in the US had a monopoly for some time - but if I had
a better system I could offer for free, say Star Trek transporters, they
could not stop those (other, perhaps, than making it illegal - which the
last I checked OSS was still legal).
Post by Kari Laine
It counts it's future now to be able to create a lot of patents it can use in
cross licensing (or assured mutual destruction from the cold war time) and
extort license fees from companies as it is already doing with Linux. It is
horrible, me thinks, that Microsoft gets money for the good work open source
makes. And probably uses part of that money to combat open source and Linux in
particular.
Again: I am not defending the status quo. I think the current IP laws and
implementations are horrible.
Post by Kari Laine
Note Microsoft all the time points out the number of patents it has got - how
about quality and innovation?
Other than pointing to patents, how does one show that?
Post by Kari Laine
Could it be that they try to through existing solutions and trying to patent
things they have nothing to in invention department.
Also after reading above mentioned book. I have one question.
USA has had strong IP laws quite long. Now it seems patenting is extended to
everything possible. Therefore there are lot of patents and copyrighted
material.
Now USA pressures developing countries and India and China to pass same IP
legistlation USA has, making it's patents enforceable in those countries. How
could innovation happen in those countries when everything is blocked by
patents hold by USA? Bill Gates has himself said (read the book) that if now
existing patent system would have existed at the time personal computing was
born the whole business would be in total standstill(please read the book for
exact words). How are those countries to be able to develop software industry
- if they erect USA patent system - no way.
Again: I am not defending the status quo. I think the current IP laws and
implementations are horrible.
Post by Kari Laine
After reading the book I can't stop thinking that this is big imperialism
movement going on. And I don't like it. But it is probably ok - and I cannot
make difference any way....
Best Regards
Kari
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2011-01-20 22:09:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snit
Post by Kari Laine
please read this book
http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm
then come back to tell that patent system is not rotten.
I never said it was to my liking. I also think health care in the US is
handled very, very poorly - but I would not suggest doing away with health
care as the solution.
That’s like saying that the criminal justice system is handled very, very
poorly, but you would not suggest doing away with crime as the solution.
Post by Snit
Post by Kari Laine
Note Microsoft all the time points out the number of patents it has got -
how about quality and innovation?
Other than pointing to patents, how does one show that?
This is why you need to read the book.
Snit
2011-01-20 22:14:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snit
Post by Kari Laine
please read this book
http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm
then come back to tell that patent system is not rotten.
I never said it was to my liking. I also think health care in the US is
handled very, very poorly - but I would not suggest doing away with health
care as the solution.
That¹s like saying that the criminal justice system is handled very, very
poorly, but you would not suggest doing away with crime as the solution.
Nope: it is saying doing away with *laws* is not the solution. And that is
what Homer advocates - doing away with the laws. He wants to make some
private properly become communal... completely eliminate the IP laws.

Removing the laws is not the best way to deal with high levels of crime.
Fixing laws, making sure they are enforceable and enforcing them is a much
better solution.
Post by Snit
Post by Kari Laine
Note Microsoft all the time points out the number of patents it has got -
how about quality and innovation?
Other than pointing to patents, how does one show that?
This is why you need to read the book.
Lack of answer noted.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2011-01-21 06:01:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snit
Post by Snit
Post by Kari Laine
please read this book
http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm
then come back to tell that patent system is not rotten.
I never said it was to my liking. I also think health care in the US is
handled very, very poorly - but I would not suggest doing away with
health care as the solution.
That¹s like saying that the criminal justice system is handled very, very
poorly, but you would not suggest doing away with crime as the solution.
Nope: it is saying doing away with *laws* is not the solution.
How come?
Snit
2011-01-21 14:52:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Snit
Post by Snit
Post by Kari Laine
please read this book
http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm
then come back to tell that patent system is not rotten.
I never said it was to my liking. I also think health care in the US is
handled very, very poorly - but I would not suggest doing away with
health care as the solution.
That¹s like saying that the criminal justice system is handled very, very
poorly, but you would not suggest doing away with crime as the solution.
Nope: it is saying doing away with *laws* is not the solution.
How come?
For the same reason doing away with other property laws is not a good way to
deal with theft.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Kari Laine
2011-01-21 13:00:49 UTC
Permalink
Hi Snit,
Post by Snit
Post by Snit
Post by Kari Laine
please read this book
http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm
then come back to tell that patent system is not rotten.
I never said it was to my liking. I also think health care in the US is
handled very, very poorly - but I would not suggest doing away with health
care as the solution.
That¹s like saying that the criminal justice system is handled very, very
poorly, but you would not suggest doing away with crime as the solution.
Nope: it is saying doing away with *laws* is not the solution. And that is
what Homer advocates - doing away with the laws. He wants to make some
private properly become communal... completely eliminate the IP laws.
Removing the laws is not the best way to deal with high levels of crime.
Fixing laws, making sure they are enforceable and enforcing them is a much
better solution.
If you read the good book I referenced, at the end of it authors give an
opinion that the system should not be demolished all at the sudden. The
whole shebang is so interconnected everything than only corrective
measures are possible. I for example think that demolishing it all at
the sudden would mean many companies going out of business and people
losing their jobs - not to mention so honorable people as patent lawyers
having to start chasing ambulances again...

Best Regards
Kari
Snit
2011-01-21 16:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kari Laine
Hi Snit,
Post by Snit
Post by Snit
Post by Kari Laine
please read this book
http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm
then come back to tell that patent system is not rotten.
I never said it was to my liking. I also think health care in the US is
handled very, very poorly - but I would not suggest doing away with health
care as the solution.
That¹s like saying that the criminal justice system is handled very, very
poorly, but you would not suggest doing away with crime as the solution.
Nope: it is saying doing away with *laws* is not the solution. And that is
what Homer advocates - doing away with the laws. He wants to make some
private properly become communal... completely eliminate the IP laws.
Removing the laws is not the best way to deal with high levels of crime.
Fixing laws, making sure they are enforceable and enforcing them is a much
better solution.
If you read the good book I referenced, at the end of it authors give an
opinion that the system should not be demolished all at the sudden.
I would say not to demolish it at all (well, maybe to "demolish" how it is,
but not to get rid of all property laws - that would be rather insane).
Post by Kari Laine
The whole shebang is so interconnected everything than only corrective
measures are possible. I for example think that demolishing it all at the
sudden would mean many companies going out of business and people losing their
jobs - not to mention so honorable people as patent lawyers having to start
chasing ambulances again...
Best Regards
Kari
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
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