Discussion:
Microsoft going after Linux?
(too old to reply)
Rjack
2009-02-26 00:03:27 UTC
Permalink
"Microsoft has filed a suit against TomTom, 'alleging that the
in-car navigation company's devices violate eight of its patents —
including three that relate to TomTom's implementation of the Linux
kernel."

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212

Sincerely,
Rjack :)
ray
2009-02-26 00:45:01 UTC
Permalink
"Microsoft has filed a suit against TomTom, 'alleging that the in-car
navigation company's devices violate eight of its patents — including
three that relate to TomTom's implementation of the Linux kernel."
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212
Sincerely,
Rjack :)
MS has three patents relating to implementation of the Linux kernel?
Rather odd.
amicus_curious
2009-02-26 01:28:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by ray
"Microsoft has filed a suit against TomTom, 'alleging that the in-car
navigation company's devices violate eight of its patents — including
three that relate to TomTom's implementation of the Linux kernel."
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212
Sincerely,
Rjack :)
MS has three patents relating to implementation of the Linux kernel?
Rather odd.
They weren't obtained for Linux, I would think. Rather Linux implemented
something that had been patented as an enhancement to DOS for Windows95. No
one checks these things and consequently big companies cross license each
other to cut down on the litigation or threats. It is expensive to apply
for patents and little companies don't do so much of it, so they are caught
up short and have to license those things that they, probably inadvertently,
infringe on. Tom-Tom is in that kind of fix. Linux is just caught in a
cross-fire or collateral damage.
Rex Ballard
2009-02-27 01:42:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by amicus_curious
Post by ray
"Microsoft has filed a suit against TomTom, 'alleging that the in-car
navigation company's devices violate eight of its patents — including
three that relate to TomTom's implementation of the Linux kernel."
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212
Sincerely,
Rjack :)
MS has three patents relating to implementation of the Linux kernel?
Rather odd.
They weren't obtained for Linux, I would think. Rather Linux implemented
something that had been patented as an enhancement to DOS for Windows95. No
one checks these things and consequently big companies cross license each
other to cut down on the litigation or threats.
Actually, these things ARE checked. Contributors must certify that to
the best of their knowledge, the work being contributed is an ORIGINAL
work, and must grant permission to use that original work on a non-
exclusive basis.

If an employee of Microsoft contributed source code to Linux, and it
was his original work, he could theoretically license the work to BOTH
Microsoft AND Linux on a non-exclusive basis.

On the other hand, if the employee fraudulently claimed that the work
was original, the employee could be charged with criminal fraud,
criminal copyright violations, and criminal patent fraud. The Linux
or OSS organization, on the other hand, would be exempt.

By the way, it is worth noting that Linux code is just ONE archive.
There is also BSD archives dating back to the 1980s, and IBM source
code dating back to the 1960s.

In the case of an inventor claiming originality improperly, the burdon
of proof is to prove that the inventor had actually SEEN the other
device or implementation, had copied the implementation, and had THEN
represented it as original work. Since the liability stops with the
individual, the criminal case would have to prove "beyond a reasonable
doubt" that the individual was knowingly claiming someone else's
intellectual property as his own.

Keep in mind too that software patents only cover specific
implementations, not all possible implementations of a device. If
there is ANY significant difference (significant being something
beyond variable renaming and such), it would be a DIFFERENT device,
and would not violate the patented device.

Typically Linus and his team choose from a number of different
possible implementations, and often debate the merits of such choices
extensively before making the final choice of what's in and what's
out. Perhaps Microsoft got one of the disgruntled loser's
implementations - which might even be DOCUMENTED and DOCUMENTED as a
LOSER.

Imagine Linus or Maddog coming to the stand and saying "yeah, we
looked at doing it that way, but decided there were too many security
risk and that the kernel would start crashing if we did it that way".

Now, imagine this times 8, or 256, or even times 1,000.

Do you think that Microsoft would want it made public that they've
been using Linux' REJECTS?
Post by amicus_curious
It is expensive to apply
for patents and little companies don't do so much of it,
Actually, filing an application isn't that expensive for a smaller
company.
This lets them establish date of first discovery. They have a certain
amount
of time to complete the patent search and finalize the application.
After that
amount of time, the applicaton is denied and can't be patented in the
future.
In effect, it's "public domain".

There are lots of patent troll companies who file incomplete patent
applications and then complete the filings if someone else starts to
perfect, develop, and market their original invention. Even then,
it's very hard to get big royalty checks in these scenarios. A penny
or two per implementation is about the best one can hope for.
Post by amicus_curious
so they are caught
up short and have to license those things that they, probably inadvertently,
infringe on. Tom-Tom is in that kind of fix. Linux is just caught in a
cross-fire or collateral damage.
There are so many variable here, that it's really hard to even
speculate
on the outcome. Tom-Tom could bring in the entire Linux community and
force large quantities of disclosures - including possibly even every
patent
Microsoft claims violates their patents - in Linux and OSS software.

If they can show a pattern of fraudulent patents, they could have the
case thrown out on that basis.
Rjack
2009-02-26 11:47:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by ray
Post by Rjack
"Microsoft has filed a suit against TomTom, 'alleging that the
in-car navigation company's devices violate eight of its
patents — including three that relate to TomTom's
implementation of the Linux kernel."
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212
Sincerely, Rjack :)
MS has three patents relating to implementation of the Linux
kernel? Rather odd.
Seems to be related to filesystems and how long and short filenames
are processed.

Sincerely,
Rjack :)
Doctor Smith
2009-02-26 02:30:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rjack
"Microsoft has filed a suit against TomTom, 'alleging that the
in-car navigation company's devices violate eight of its patents —
including three that relate to TomTom's implementation of the Linux
kernel."
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212
Sincerely,
Rjack :)
It figures.
I just bought a TomTom.

Nice device BTW.

You can mount it as a regular filesystem, IOW plug it in and it appears as
a USB mass storage.
Very nice community as well.
amicus_curious
2009-02-26 14:21:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doctor Smith
Post by Rjack
"Microsoft has filed a suit against TomTom, 'alleging that the
in-car navigation company's devices violate eight of its patents —
including three that relate to TomTom's implementation of the Linux
kernel."
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212
Sincerely,
Rjack :)
It figures.
I just bought a TomTom.
Nice device BTW.
You can mount it as a regular filesystem, IOW plug it in and it appears as
a USB mass storage.
Very nice community as well.
What can you do with it as a connected device other than perhaps replace the
internal mapping data with a newer version?
Doctor Smith
2009-02-26 16:13:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by amicus_curious
Post by Doctor Smith
Post by Rjack
"Microsoft has filed a suit against TomTom, 'alleging that the
in-car navigation company's devices violate eight of its patents —
including three that relate to TomTom's implementation of the Linux
kernel."
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212
Sincerely,
Rjack :)
It figures.
I just bought a TomTom.
Nice device BTW.
You can mount it as a regular filesystem, IOW plug it in and it appears as
a USB mass storage.
Very nice community as well.
What can you do with it as a connected device other than perhaps replace the
internal mapping data with a newer version?
Add new voices.
Map corrections.
Change/add the themes.
Community submitted items.
Add Points of Interest.
Plan routes on the computer.
Back up the unit.
Use the unit from the computer.
etc..

HOWEVER............

All of these uses software that runs under Windows and Mac only.

No Linux versions.

So if you are running Linux, the best you can do is back the unit up by
copying the file system.
Andrew Halliwell
2009-02-27 00:33:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doctor Smith
Add new voices.
Map corrections.
Change/add the themes.
Community submitted items.
Add Points of Interest.
Plan routes on the computer.
Back up the unit.
Use the unit from the computer.
etc..
HOWEVER............
All of these uses software that runs under Windows and Mac only.
No Linux versions.
So if you are running Linux, the best you can do is back the unit up by
copying the file system.
Updating the map, adding voices, updating the firmware etc are all possible
without using the windows software.

And it does run on wine (partially), backup works, firmware update doesn't
but that doesn't matter cos it's just a matter of downloading and copying a
couple of files to the tomtom. I've not tried the community stuff or adding
PoI.
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Doctor Smith
2009-02-27 01:44:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Post by Doctor Smith
Add new voices.
Map corrections.
Change/add the themes.
Community submitted items.
Add Points of Interest.
Plan routes on the computer.
Back up the unit.
Use the unit from the computer.
etc..
HOWEVER............
All of these uses software that runs under Windows and Mac only.
No Linux versions.
So if you are running Linux, the best you can do is back the unit up by
copying the file system.
Updating the map, adding voices, updating the firmware etc are all possible
without using the windows software.
And it does run on wine (partially), backup works, firmware update doesn't
but that doesn't matter cos it's just a matter of downloading and copying a
couple of files to the tomtom. I've not tried the community stuff or adding
PoI.
I wouldn't let Wine anywhere near a gadget like that.
What do you do when Wine bricks the thing?

People aren't interested in jumping through flaming hoops to utilize all
the features of their GPS.
They just want it to work so they can concentrate on USING it.

I launch the software, click on voices for example, audition them online,
pick and choose what I want and download it to the unit.

You have to figure out what file you want, where to put it and then AFTER
you have loaded it into the unit try and see if you like it.

There is simply NO COMPARISON between the Linux way and the Windows way.

None.
Andrew Halliwell
2009-02-27 01:56:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doctor Smith
I wouldn't let Wine anywhere near a gadget like that.
What do you do when Wine bricks the thing?
I copied the memory card to a safe location before trying.
--
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| Andrew Halliwell BSc | "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't |
| in | suck is probably the day they start making |
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Doctor Smith
2009-02-27 02:23:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Post by Doctor Smith
I wouldn't let Wine anywhere near a gadget like that.
What do you do when Wine bricks the thing?
I copied the memory card to a safe location before trying.
Good idea.
Also no matter what OS you use, make a complete backup of the file system
tree INCLUDING hidden files.
Use the OS to do it, not the back up program included with the software.
Andrew Halliwell
2009-02-27 00:30:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by amicus_curious
What can you do with it as a connected device other than perhaps replace the
internal mapping data with a newer version?
Backing up your favourite destinations, updating the firmware and journey
planning/sharing mainly.
--
| ***@freenet.co.uk | |
| Andrew Halliwell BSc | "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't |
| in | suck is probably the day they start making |
| Computer science | vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge |
JEDIDIAH
2009-02-27 15:27:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Post by amicus_curious
What can you do with it as a connected device other than perhaps replace the
internal mapping data with a newer version?
This is hardly a compelling use. That mapping data is expensive enough
that many (if not most) people will simply choose not to bother.
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Backing up your favourite destinations, updating the firmware and journey
planning/sharing mainly.
You can also load media files (at least on a Garmin) so that the
unit can also be used as a media player.
--
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/ | \
Andrew Halliwell
2009-02-27 15:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by JEDIDIAH
You can also load media files (at least on a Garmin) so that the
unit can also be used as a media player.
Aye, tomtom can do that too, not that I've bothered.
Mine's a tomtom rider v2. I don't want any more distractions on my motorbike
than exist already. And I'd prefer to be listening to outside my helmet than
music, just in case.
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Rjack
2009-02-27 00:02:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rjack
"Microsoft has filed a suit against TomTom, 'alleging that the
in-car navigation company's devices violate eight of its patents
— including three that relate to TomTom's implementation of the
Linux kernel."
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212
"Plan for the Worst

The Linux Foundation is working closely with our partner the Open
Invention Network, and our members, and is well prepared for any
claims against Linux. We have great confidence in the foundation
they have laid. Unfortunately, claims like these are a by-product of
our business and legal system today. For now, we are closely
watching the situation and will remain ready to mount a Linux’s
defense, should the need arise."

http://www.linux-foundation.org/weblogs/jzemlin/2009/02/26/note-on-microsoft-tomtom-suit-calm-down-hope-for-the-best-plan-for-the-worst/

Sincerely,
Rjack :)
Rex Ballard
2009-02-27 01:20:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rjack
Post by Rjack
"Microsoft has filed a suit against TomTom, 'alleging that the
in-car navigation company's devices violate eight of its patents
— including three that relate to TomTom's implementation of the
Linux kernel."
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212
Microsoft is taking a huge gamble here, because they could have all
8 patents nullified or even transferred to the creators of prior art.

The courts take a dim view of "first to file" based patent awards,
and this is especially true when the information was easily available
and widely published. In some cases, the patent offices have even
decided that that the claims were wilfully fraudulent - because the
related prior art had not been listed.

Remember that failing to include known prior art in a patent
application
can result in nullification of the patent. If it's too similar to the
prior art,
the patent could even be transferred to the original inventor.

Given that OSS has always been documented through revision
control systems, the change history could easily document a
MUCH earlier date of origination.

I would LOVE to see Microsoft go after Linux over specific patents,
and have those patents, critical to Microsoft's products, turned over
to Richard Stallman, because it showed up in the GNU project 3-4
years earlier.

Stallman would probably demand that Microsoft place ALL of their
source code into GPL or LGPL.
Post by Rjack
"Plan for the Worst
The Linux Foundation is working closely with our partner the Open
Invention Network, and our members, and is well prepared for any
claims against Linux. We have great confidence in the foundation
they have laid. Unfortunately, claims like these are a by-product of
our business and legal system today. For now, we are closely
watching the situation and will remain ready to mount a Linux’s
defense, should the need arise."
http://www.linux-foundation.org/weblogs/jzemlin/2009/02/26/note-on-mi...
That's a dangerous crowd to mess with. With their massive archive of
carefully documented changes to millions, even billions of lines of
source
code, available almost immediately, Microsoft could easily find
themselvs
losing everything.

Worse, Microsoft could end up trying to enforce a patent against
something
that had not only been INVENTED earlier but was REJECTED due to
inherent security problems.

DHCP is RARP. The dynamic generation and assignment from a pool was
rejected because it created such a security risk - because the
assigned addresses couldn't be properly tracked and audited to
properly identidy hackers. This is still a problem, especially in
corporate networks, and especially with the ability to clone a MAC
address.

Many of Microsodft's "innovations" are similar "security holes".
Post by Rjack
Sincerely,
Rjack :)
Doctor Smith
2009-02-27 01:40:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rjack
Post by Rjack
"Microsoft has filed a suit against TomTom, 'alleging that the
in-car navigation company's devices violate eight of its patents
— including three that relate to TomTom's implementation of the
Linux kernel."
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/25/232212
"Plan for the Worst
The Linux Foundation is working closely with our partner the Open
Invention Network, and our members, and is well prepared for any
claims against Linux. We have great confidence in the foundation
they have laid. Unfortunately, claims like these are a by-product of
our business and legal system today. For now, we are closely
watching the situation and will remain ready to mount a Linux’s
defense, should the need arise."
They will be utterly crushed into the ground.
Andrew Halliwell
2009-02-27 02:00:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doctor Smith
They will be utterly crushed into the ground.
Who? Tomtom?
In europe? (I presume as they're a european company, that's where the trial
will be held...?)

If not, tomtom could just utterly ignore anything microsoft says. They're
out of their jurisdiction. American laws do not apply.

Europe still holds software patents as extremely dubious if not illegal.
A few have slipped through but they've by no means been accepted like they
have in america.
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| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell BSc | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| in |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
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Doctor Smith
2009-02-27 02:23:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Post by Doctor Smith
They will be utterly crushed into the ground.
Who? Tomtom?
FSF
Rjack
2009-02-27 03:10:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Post by Doctor Smith
They will be utterly crushed into the ground.
Who? Tomtom?
FSF
Micro$oft has $19 billion in cash on hand. It costs more than $1
million to prosecute or defend a patent claim. If someone like the
Linux Foundation tries to sue Microsoft for really serious damages
why wouldn't Micro$oft simply sue Linus Torvalds? You're looking at
over $250 million in attorney fees just to defend against
Microsoft's potential claims whether they are frivolous or not. I
suspect Linux kernel developers would agree to vanish overnight in
order to avoid potential infringement suits.

No one can rely on life being fair. A monopolist like Microsoft
with $19 billion in cash on hand will end up calling the shots in a
patent war. The long historical road involving the development of
computer software is littered with the dead bodies of Microsoft's
enemies who forecast Redmond's imminent demise. Marshall Phelps,
Microsoft's IP strategy manager formulated IBM's patent strategy
back in the 1980's. Cavalierly dismissing Micro$oft patent threats
would be foolhardy at best.


Sincerely,
Rjack :)
David Kastrup
2009-02-27 21:17:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rjack
No one can rely on life being fair. A monopolist like Microsoft
with $19 billion in cash on hand will end up calling the shots in a
patent war.
"Fine. A shot in my leg. It is not like I don't have seven others."
--
David Kastrup
amicus_curious
2009-02-27 13:49:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Post by Doctor Smith
They will be utterly crushed into the ground.
Who? Tomtom?
In europe? (I presume as they're a european company, that's where the trial
will be held...?)
It will be held in the US District Court for the Western District of
Washington at Seattle.
Post by Andrew Halliwell
If not, tomtom could just utterly ignore anything microsoft says. They're
out of their jurisdiction. American laws do not apply.
They do in the USofA, where the suit is filed and the complaint was served.
It is like saying that the EU cannot do anything to Microsoft because they
are an American company.
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Europe still holds software patents as extremely dubious if not illegal.
A few have slipped through but they've by no means been accepted like they
have in america.
Tom-Tom is free to abandon the US market if they wish to avoid US courts, of
course, but the profits here are just too tempting. It is the same way with
Mr. Softee in the EU. They cover their higher costs of business by raising
prices a little.
Andrew Halliwell
2009-02-27 14:02:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by amicus_curious
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Who? Tomtom?
In europe? (I presume as they're a european company, that's where the trial
will be held...?)
It will be held in the US District Court for the Western District of
Washington at Seattle.
Post by Andrew Halliwell
If not, tomtom could just utterly ignore anything microsoft says. They're
out of their jurisdiction. American laws do not apply.
They do in the USofA, where the suit is filed and the complaint was served.
It is like saying that the EU cannot do anything to Microsoft because they
are an American company.
That depends if tomtom have any offices in america.
If they do, they might be sensible to shut them all down and move to
civilisation. North of the border. Then the yanks shout and shriek as much
as they want and tomtom can just say "screw you".

If they don't have any offices in america, good luck on getting them to even
show up in court. They're under no legal obligation to under EU law.
Post by amicus_curious
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Europe still holds software patents as extremely dubious if not illegal.
A few have slipped through but they've by no means been accepted like they
have in america.
Tom-Tom is free to abandon the US market if they wish to avoid US courts, of
course, but the profits here are just too tempting. It is the same way with
Mr. Softee in the EU. They cover their higher costs of business by raising
prices a little.
Would america impose a trade embargo if they tried importing more tomtoms
into america if they shut up shop and moved out of the country?

Does microsoft have that much power?
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Alexander Terekhov
2009-02-27 15:11:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Post by amicus_curious
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Who? Tomtom?
In europe? (I presume as they're a european company, that's where the trial
will be held...?)
It will be held in the US District Court for the Western District of
Washington at Seattle.
Post by Andrew Halliwell
If not, tomtom could just utterly ignore anything microsoft says. They're
out of their jurisdiction. American laws do not apply.
They do in the USofA, where the suit is filed and the complaint was served.
It is like saying that the EU cannot do anything to Microsoft because they
are an American company.
That depends if tomtom have any offices in america.
From the complaint:

MICROSOFT CORPORATION,
a Washington Corporation,
Plaintiff,

v.

TOMTOM N.V., a Netherlands Corporation,
and TOMTOM, INC., a Massachusetts Corporation,
Defendants.

COMPLAINT FOR PATENT
INFRINGEMENT

JURY DEMAND

Plaintiff Microsoft Corporation (“Microsoft”) for its Complaint For
Patent Infringement against Defendants TomTom N.V. and TomTom, Inc.
(collectively, the “Defendants”), alleges as follows:

PARTIES

1. Plaintiff Microsoft Corporation is a Washington corporation having
its principal place of business at One Microsoft Way, Redmond,
Washington 98052.

2. Founded in 1975, Microsoft is a worldwide leader in computer
software, services and solutions for businesses and consumers. Since
1979, Microsoft has been headquartered in the Seattle, Washington
metropolitan area, currently employs more than 20,000 people in the
Seattle area, and occupies nearly 8 million square feet of facilities at
its Redmond campus.

3. Microsoft has a long history of technical innovation in the software
and hardware products it develops and distributes. These software
products include operating systems for servers, personal computers,
embedded devices, smartphones, PDAs, and other intelligent devices;
server applications for distributed computing environments; information
worker productivity applications; business solution applications;
high-performance computing applications; software development tools;
operating systems for automotive applications; and various
navigation-related software products and services.

4. Upon information and belief, Defendant TomTom N.V. is a Dutch
corporation organized and existing under the laws of the Netherlands
having a principal place of business at Rembrandtplein 35, Amsterdam
1017 CT, Netherlands.

5. Upon information and belief, Defendant TomTom, Inc. is a corporation
organized and existing under the laws of Massachusetts and is a
wholly-owned subsidiary of TomTom N.V. TomTom, Inc.’s principal place of
business is located at 150 Baker Ave Ext., Concord, Massachusetts 01742.

6. Upon information and belief, Defendants are in the business of
developing, manufacturing, and selling portable navigation computing
devices and software for use on those devices, personal computers, PDAs,
and smartphones (hereinafter known collectively as “Portable Navigation
Devices and Software”). Upon information and belief, Defendants market
and distribute their products worldwide, including in the United States,
through their channel business partners and various retail companies, at
retail stores, through the websites of retail companies, and on their
own websites. Upon information and belief, Defendants do business within
the Western District of Washington.

JURISDICTION AND VENUE

7. This is an action for patent infringement arising under the patent
laws of the United States, Title 35, United States Code.

8. This Court has subject matter jurisdiction pursuant to 28 U.S.C. §§
1331 and 1338(a).

9. Venue is proper in this district pursuant to 28 U.S.C. §§ 1391(b),
1391(c) and 1400(b). On information and belief, Defendants are subject
to this Court’s personal jurisdiction, consistent with the principles of
due process and the Washington Long Arm Statute, because each Defendant
offers for sale and sells Portable Navigation Devices and Software in
the Western District of Washington, has transacted business in this
District, and/or has committed and/or induced acts of patent
infringement in this District. For example, Defendants’ own website
(e.g., http://www.tomtom.com/page/giftguide?Lid=4&selector=true) allows
users to purchase Defendants’ products for delivery within this
District. The website at
http://www.tomtom.com/stores/type.php?ID=2&Country=223 directs users of
the Defendants’ website to retail outlets selling Defendants’ products
within this District. Additionally, the website at
http://www.tomtom.com/stores/type.php?ID=1&Country=223 directs users of
the Defendants’ website to online merchants selling Defendants’ products
for delivery within this District.

regards,
alexander.

--
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(GNG is a derecursive recursive derecursion which pwns GNU since it can
be infinitely looped as GNGNGNGNG...NGNGNG... and can be said backwards
too, whereas GNU cannot.)
Ben Pfaff
2009-02-27 15:15:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Post by amicus_curious
Tom-Tom is free to abandon the US market if they wish to avoid US courts, of
course, but the profits here are just too tempting. It is the same way with
Mr. Softee in the EU. They cover their higher costs of business by raising
prices a little.
Would america impose a trade embargo if they tried importing more tomtoms
into america if they shut up shop and moved out of the country?
Does microsoft have that much power?
It's nothing specific to Microsoft. Preventing the import of
devices that violate a patent is one of the standard rights of a
patent owner.
--
"...I've forgotten where I was going with this,
but you can bet it was scathing."
--DesiredUsername
amicus_curious
2009-02-27 16:27:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Post by amicus_curious
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Who? Tomtom?
In europe? (I presume as they're a european company, that's where the trial
will be held...?)
It will be held in the US District Court for the Western District of
Washington at Seattle.
Post by Andrew Halliwell
If not, tomtom could just utterly ignore anything microsoft says. They're
out of their jurisdiction. American laws do not apply.
They do in the USofA, where the suit is filed and the complaint was served.
It is like saying that the EU cannot do anything to Microsoft because they
are an American company.
That depends if tomtom have any offices in america.
If they do, they might be sensible to shut them all down and move to
civilisation. North of the border. Then the yanks shout and shriek as much
as they want and tomtom can just say "screw you".
If they don't have any offices in america, good luck on getting them to even
show up in court. They're under no legal obligation to under EU law.
Well, I think you are not fully aware of the meaning of these suits. First
off, Tom-Tom does have an incorporated subsidiary in the US and that is the
entity being sued in Washington. Second, a failure to show up and defend
the suit would surely place it on the list of items that the government
could seize for such a patent violation. I am sure that Tom-Tom's business
activity in the USofA is something that they hold dear and would be loath to
abandon so cavalierly as you suggest.
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Post by amicus_curious
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Europe still holds software patents as extremely dubious if not illegal.
A few have slipped through but they've by no means been accepted like they
have in america.
Tom-Tom is free to abandon the US market if they wish to avoid US courts, of
course, but the profits here are just too tempting. It is the same way with
Mr. Softee in the EU. They cover their higher costs of business by raising
prices a little.
Would america impose a trade embargo if they tried importing more tomtoms
into america if they shut up shop and moved out of the country?
Does microsoft have that much power?
Not Microsot per se, but the US Customs Service surely does. They have guns
and things to help out with the process.
Thufir Hawat
2009-02-28 07:04:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Halliwell
Post by Doctor Smith
They will be utterly crushed into the ground.
Who? Tomtom?
In europe? (I presume as they're a european company, that's where the
trial will be held...?)
If not, tomtom could just utterly ignore anything microsoft says.
They're out of their jurisdiction. American laws do not apply.
Europe still holds software patents as extremely dubious if not illegal.
A few have slipped through but they've by no means been accepted like
they have in america.
Err, cannot Microsoft be sued by the EC in europe? Of course, it's the
European company which is sued.


-Thufir

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