Discussion:
TomTom, the GPL and patents
(too old to reply)
Rjack
2009-03-10 14:18:10 UTC
Permalink
Why not be realistic? You can't extended your copyrights to control
intellectual property outside of your copyright grant. There is *no*
question that a patent is outside the ownership grant of a copyright:

******************************************************************
17 USC 102. Subject matter of copyright.

(b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of
authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method
of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the
form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied
in such work.
*******************************************************************

Never in his wildest dreams will a GPL licensor control software
patents he *doesn't* own with a copyright grant that he does own:

"The misuse defense prevents copyright holders from leveraging their
limited monopoly to allow them control of areas outside the
monopoly. See Lasercomb, 911 F.2d 970 at 976-77; see also Religious
Tech. Ctr. v. Lerma, No. 95-1107A, 1996 WL 633131, at *11 (E.D. Va.
Oct. 4, 1996) (listing circumstances which indicate improper
leverage)."; A&M RECORDS, INC. v. NAPSTER, INC., 239 F.3d 1004 (9th
Cir. 2001).

"Misuse of copyright applies where the copyright owner tries to
extend the copyright beyond its intended reach, thereby augmenting
the physical scope of copyright protection. It typically arises in
situations where it is alleged that the copyright owner projected
his unique rights in a work onto other, unrelated products or
services."; Religious Tech. Ctr. v. Lerma, No. 95-1107A, (E.D. Va.
1996).

The great debate on the software blogs about TomTom violating the
GPL is sheer nonsense of the same caliber as Eben Moglen's nonsense
about a copyright license not being a contract.

Sincerely,
Rjack :)
Hyman Rosen
2009-03-10 14:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rjack
Never in his wildest dreams will a GPL licensor control software
patents he *doesn't* own with a copyright grant that he does own
Of course not. A GPL licensor only controls software patents that
he *does* own. He grants free use of those patents required for
the software that he distributes.

Why do you think anyone is trying to control software patents that
they don't own?
David Kastrup
2009-03-10 22:42:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hyman Rosen
Post by Rjack
Never in his wildest dreams will a GPL licensor control software
patents he *doesn't* own with a copyright grant that he does own
Of course not. A GPL licensor only controls software patents that
he *does* own. He grants free use of those patents required for
the software that he distributes.
Why do you think anyone is trying to control software patents that
they don't own?
I think he is just confusing the realms of control. If I own a house,
that does not give me control over the bricks of my neighbor. But that
does not imply that he is free to throw the bricks through my window.
Not because I am in control of the bricks, but of the window.
--
David Kastrup
Rjack
2009-03-11 12:58:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hyman Rosen
Post by Rjack
Never in his wildest dreams will a GPL licensor control
software patents he *doesn't* own with a copyright grant that
he does own
Of course not. A GPL licensor only controls software patents that
he *does* own. He grants free use of those patents required for
the software that he distributes.
Why do you think anyone is trying to control software patents
that they don't own?
Try reading sec. 7 of the GPL sometime.

Sincerely,
Rjack :)
Hyman Rosen
2009-03-11 14:20:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rjack
Try reading sec. 7 of the GPL sometime.
Section 7 (of GPLv2) says that if the people to whom you would
distribute software under the GPL will not be able to exercise
their four freedoms due to patent or other legal restrictions,
then you may not distribute the software to them under the GPL.

Why do you think this means that anyone is trying to control
software patents that they don't own?
Rjack
2009-03-11 14:41:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hyman Rosen
Post by Rjack
Try reading sec. 7 of the GPL sometime.
Section 7 (of GPLv2) says that if the people to whom you would
distribute software under the GPL will not be able to exercise
their four freedoms due to patent or other legal restrictions,
then you may not distribute the software to them under the GPL.
Why do you think this means that anyone is trying to control
software patents that they don't own?
You have linked your GPL copyright license distribution clause to
depend on the freedom of exercise of another's patent rights. How's
that so difficult to understand? By the way, your "four freedoms"
are really "restrictions" cloaked in socialist semantics.

GNUtians don't like the accepted definition of "freedom" so they
just moooooooooooove the definition to a definition they prefer.

Sincerely,
Rjack :)
Hyman Rosen
2009-03-11 15:15:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rjack
Why do you think this means that anyone is trying to control software
patents that they don't own?
You have linked your GPL copyright license distribution clause to
depend on the freedom of exercise of another's patent rights.
Yes. Why do you think this means that anyone is trying to control
software patents that they don't own? Why do you find this question
so difficult to answer?

The purpose of distributing under the GPL is so that users can run,
read, modify, and share the software they receive. If something would
prevent them from doing these things, then their freedoms are vitiated.
Under those circumstances, there is no point in distributing software
them, and so the GPL forbids it.

As well, this is meant to discourage deliberately dishonest code
grabbers who would ostensibly distribute free software but then use
their own patents to prevent users from exercising their freedoms.
Post by Rjack
By the way, your "four freedoms" are really "restrictions" cloaked
in socialist semantics.
No. They are freedoms for users of software. They are indeed
restrictions on developers and distributors of software, for
the purpose of making sure that no one can take free software
and distribute it to users while denying them the four freedoms.
The FSF does not care at all if their licensing causes difficulty
for software developers and distributors, especially since most
of the complaints come from those who are seeking to deny their
users freedoms.
Post by Rjack
GNUtians don't like the accepted definition of "freedom" so they
just moooooooooooove the definition to a definition they prefer.
Users of GPLed software are free to run the software, free to read
the software, free to modify the software, and free to share the
software. All of these uses of the word "free" are conventional. It
is only people who want to deny these freedoms to the users to whom
they distribute software who complain about being denied the "freedom"
to do so, a freedom which no one ever promised them.

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