Discussion:
MS partner sues Red Hat for patent violation ..
(too old to reply)
Doug Mentohl
2009-03-04 16:40:25 UTC
Permalink
'Software Tree LLC claims that JBoss infringes on its database patent
for "exchanging data and commands between an object oriented system and
a relational system." Software Tree's partners include Microsoft, and
that the suit was filed in Eastern Texas, which is known as a
plaintiff's paradise for patent actions."'

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/04/1615250
amicus_curious
2009-03-04 17:21:55 UTC
Permalink
'Software Tree LLC claims that JBoss infringes on its database patent for
"exchanging data and commands between an object oriented system and a
relational system." Software Tree's partners include Microsoft, and that
the suit was filed in Eastern Texas, which is known as a plaintiff's
paradise for patent actions."'
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/04/1615250
For the rest of the story:

http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/open_source/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=215800439

"Software Tree's partners include Microsoft (NSDQ: MSFT), IBM (NYSE: IBM),
Borland, and Sun, while customers range from Concert Communications to the
Los Alamos National Lab and News Corporation's Kesmai unit. "
Alan Mackenzie
2009-03-05 16:35:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doug Mentohl
'Software Tree LLC claims that JBoss infringes on its database patent
for "exchanging data and commands between an object oriented system and
a relational system." Software Tree's partners include Microsoft, and
that the suit was filed in Eastern Texas, which is known as a
plaintiff's paradise for patent actions."'
Just as an aside, wouldn't it be a smart move for high tech companies to
avoid doing business in Eastern Texas, so that they'd couldn't be patent
trolled there? If enough companies boycotted that place, they might fix
their legal setup.
Post by Doug Mentohl
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/04/1615250
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
Roy Schestowitz
2009-03-05 20:40:58 UTC
Permalink
____/ Alan Mackenzie on Thursday 05 March 2009 16:35 : \____
Post by Alan Mackenzie
Post by Doug Mentohl
'Software Tree LLC claims that JBoss infringes on its database patent
for "exchanging data and commands between an object oriented system and
a relational system." Software Tree's partners include Microsoft, and
that the suit was filed in Eastern Texas, which is known as a
plaintiff's paradise for patent actions."'
Just as an aside, wouldn't it be a smart move for high tech companies to
avoid doing business in Eastern Texas, so that they'd couldn't be patent
trolled there? If enough companies boycotted that place, they might fix
their legal setup.
Post by Doug Mentohl
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/04/1615250
Would that exempt them from litigation? IANAL, so I find this suggestion
curious.

- --
~~ Best of wishes

Roy S. Schestowitz | Get the most out of your hardware. Get Linux.
http://Schestowitz.com | Open Prospects | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Tasks: 140 total, 1 running, 139 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie
http://iuron.com - knowledge engine, not a search engine
Doctor Smith
2009-03-05 21:00:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roy Schestowitz
Would that exempt them from litigation? IANAL, so I find this suggestion
curious.
The simple things seem to baffle you Roy Schestowitz.
Post by Roy Schestowitz
- --
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | Get the most out of your hardware. Get gaylix.
Hadron
2009-03-05 21:04:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doctor Smith
Post by Roy Schestowitz
Would that exempt them from litigation? IANAL, so I find this suggestion
curious.
The simple things seem to baffle you Roy Schestowitz.
Post by Roy Schestowitz
- --
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | Get the most out of your hardware. Get gaylix.
Like setting a proper signature delimiter? "-- " for the unwashed.

Also, what on earth is I ANAL ??? And why is Roy discussing it in public
ad why does he find it curious?. It's as bad as Marti telling us about
his now dead lover.
Doctor Smith
2009-03-05 22:53:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hadron
Post by Doctor Smith
Post by Roy Schestowitz
Would that exempt them from litigation? IANAL, so I find this suggestion
curious.
The simple things seem to baffle you Roy Schestowitz.
Post by Roy Schestowitz
- --
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | Get the most out of your hardware. Get gaylix.
Like setting a proper signature delimiter? "-- " for the unwashed.
It's Schestowitz's form of SPAM..
Post by Hadron
Also, what on earth is I ANAL ??? And why is Roy discussing it in public
ad why does he find it curious?. It's as bad as Marti telling us about
his now dead lover.
It's some oddball term Schestowitz uses on his ICQ channel.

WRT to Marti, is that the boyfriend that used to fsck Marti's brains out?

Marti's own words BTW....

It appears he forgot to put them back.

Marti's brains that is........
Tim Smith
2009-03-05 23:48:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doctor Smith
Post by Hadron
Post by Roy Schestowitz
Would that exempt them from litigation? IANAL, so I find this suggestion
curious.
...
Post by Doctor Smith
Post by Hadron
Also, what on earth is I ANAL ??? And why is Roy discussing it in public
ad why does he find it curious?. It's as bad as Marti telling us about
his now dead lover.
It's some oddball term Schestowitz uses on his ICQ channel.
Give me a break--I don't believe for an instance that either of you do
not know what IANAL means. As Wikipedia notes, this is one of the most
popular internet acronyms, and it is almost impossible for anyone to
have the groups both of you read without having come across it numerous
times.
--
--Tim Smith
Hadron
2009-03-05 23:54:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Smith
Post by Doctor Smith
Post by Hadron
Post by Roy Schestowitz
Would that exempt them from litigation? IANAL, so I find this suggestion
curious.
...
Post by Doctor Smith
Post by Hadron
Also, what on earth is I ANAL ??? And why is Roy discussing it in public
ad why does he find it curious?. It's as bad as Marti telling us about
his now dead lover.
It's some oddball term Schestowitz uses on his ICQ channel.
Give me a break--I don't believe for an instance that either of you do
not know what IANAL means. As Wikipedia notes, this is one of the most
popular internet acronyms, and it is almost impossible for anyone to
have the groups both of you read without having come across it numerous
times.
I really did not know.
Peter Köhlmann
2009-03-06 00:34:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hadron
Post by Tim Smith
Post by Doctor Smith
Post by Hadron
Post by Roy Schestowitz
Would that exempt them from litigation? IANAL, so I find this
suggestion curious.
...
Post by Doctor Smith
Post by Hadron
Also, what on earth is I ANAL ??? And why is Roy discussing it in
public ad why does he find it curious?. It's as bad as Marti telling
us about his now dead lover.
It's some oddball term Schestowitz uses on his ICQ channel.
Give me a break--I don't believe for an instance that either of you do
not know what IANAL means. As Wikipedia notes, this is one of the most
popular internet acronyms, and it is almost impossible for anyone to
have the groups both of you read without having come across it numerous
times.
I really did not know.
And your severe reading comprehension disability also saw to it that you
did not understand any of the numerous web pages
--
Designed for Windows. No user serviceable parts inside. By design
Rjack
2009-03-06 00:41:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hadron
Post by Tim Smith
Post by Doctor Smith
Post by Hadron
Post by Roy Schestowitz
Would that exempt them from litigation? IANAL, so I
find this suggestion curious.
...
Post by Doctor Smith
Post by Hadron
Also, what on earth is I ANAL ??? And why is Roy discussing
it in public ad why does he find it curious?. It's as bad
as Marti telling us about his now dead lover.
It's some oddball term Schestowitz uses on his ICQ channel.
Give me a break--I don't believe for an instance that either of
you do not know what IANAL means. As Wikipedia notes, this is
one of the most popular internet acronyms, and it is almost
impossible for anyone to have the groups both of you read
without having come across it numerous times.
I really did not know.
People do not want others to mistake them for lawyers. The late
Chief Justice Warren Burger lamented, "75 to 90 percent of American
trial lawyers are incompetent, dishonest, or both."

Sincerely,
Rjack :)
JEDIDIAH
2009-03-06 02:39:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rjack
Post by Hadron
Post by Tim Smith
Post by Doctor Smith
Post by Hadron
Post by Roy Schestowitz
Would that exempt them from litigation? IANAL, so I
find this suggestion curious.
...
Post by Doctor Smith
Post by Hadron
Also, what on earth is I ANAL ??? And why is Roy discussing
it in public ad why does he find it curious?. It's as bad
as Marti telling us about his now dead lover.
It's some oddball term Schestowitz uses on his ICQ channel.
Give me a break--I don't believe for an instance that either of
you do not know what IANAL means. As Wikipedia notes, this is
one of the most popular internet acronyms, and it is almost
impossible for anyone to have the groups both of you read
without having come across it numerous times.
I really did not know.
People do not want others to mistake them for lawyers. The late
Chief Justice Warren Burger lamented, "75 to 90 percent of American
trial lawyers are incompetent, dishonest, or both."
...sounds suspicously like Sturgeons law.
--
Unfortunately, the universe will not conform itself to
your fantasies. You have to manage based on what really happens |||
rather than what you would like to happen. This is true of personal / | \
affairs, government and business.
chrisv
2009-03-06 13:27:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Smith
Give me a break--I don't believe for an instance that either of you do
not know what IANAL means. As Wikipedia notes, this is one of the most
popular internet acronyms, and it is almost impossible for anyone to
have the groups both of you read without having come across it numerous
times.
*Never* heard of it, myself.
Ezekiel
2009-03-06 13:32:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by chrisv
Post by Tim Smith
Give me a break--I don't believe for an instance that either of you do
not know what IANAL means. As Wikipedia notes, this is one of the most
popular internet acronyms, and it is almost impossible for anyone to
have the groups both of you read without having come across it numerous
times.
*Never* heard of it, myself.
chrisv admits he's ignorant. In other news the sun will rise in the East.
Chris Ahlstrom
2009-03-06 13:45:33 UTC
Permalink
After takin' a swig o' grog, chrisv belched out
Post by chrisv
Post by Tim Smith
Give me a break--I don't believe for an instance that either of you do
not know what IANAL means. As Wikipedia notes, this is one of the most
popular internet acronyms, and it is almost impossible for anyone to
have the groups both of you read without having come across it numerous
times.
*Never* heard of it, myself.
You would have if you visited Groklaw.
--
<long lame fortune snipped>
Rjack
2009-03-06 21:57:00 UTC
Permalink
After takin' a swig o' grog, chrisv belched out this bit o'
Post by chrisv
Post by Tim Smith
Give me a break--I don't believe for an instance that either
of you do not know what IANAL means. As Wikipedia notes,
this is one of the most popular internet acronyms, and it is
almost impossible for anyone to have the groups both of you
read without having come across it numerous times.
*Never* heard of it, myself.
You would have if you visited Groklaw.
IANAL? Did someboooooody say anal?

Elevated respiration. Bilateral pupillary dilation. Accelerating
heart rate. Skyrocketing systolic pressure.
Aaaaaaaaaargh. . . Pant. Pant.
RonB
2009-03-07 00:41:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by chrisv
Post by Tim Smith
Give me a break--I don't believe for an instance that either of you do
not know what IANAL means. As Wikipedia notes, this is one of the most
popular internet acronyms, and it is almost impossible for anyone to
have the groups both of you read without having come across it numerous
times.
*Never* heard of it, myself.
Me either.
--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"
Alan Mackenzie
2009-03-05 23:14:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hadron
Post by Roy Schestowitz
Would that exempt them from litigation? IANAL, so I find this suggestion
curious.
Also, what on earth is I ANAL ???
IANAL is a standard Usenet abbreviation for "I am not a lawyer". It's
been around for donkey's years, HTH :-).
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
Doctor Smith
2009-03-05 23:17:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Mackenzie
Post by Hadron
Post by Roy Schestowitz
Would that exempt them from litigation? IANAL, so I find this suggestion
curious.
Also, what on earth is I ANAL ???
IANAL is a standard Usenet abbreviation for "I am not a lawyer". It's
been around for donkey's years, HTH :-).
But...Roy Schestowitz always seems to write:

"I ANAL"
amicus_curious
2009-03-06 13:30:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doctor Smith
Post by Alan Mackenzie
Post by Hadron
Post by Roy Schestowitz
Would that exempt them from litigation? IANAL, so I find this suggestion
curious.
Also, what on earth is I ANAL ???
IANAL is a standard Usenet abbreviation for "I am not a lawyer". It's
been around for donkey's years, HTH :-).
"I ANAL"
Which is just a self-admission as Hadron noted. It is his little secret way
of fooling with the world.
Alan Mackenzie
2009-03-05 21:24:49 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Roy!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
____/ Alan Mackenzie on Thursday 05 March 2009 16:35 : \____
Post by Alan Mackenzie
Just as an aside, wouldn't it be a smart move for high tech companies to
avoid doing business in Eastern Texas, so that they'd couldn't be patent
trolled there? If enough companies boycotted that place, they might fix
their legal setup.
Would that exempt them from litigation? IANAL, so I find this suggestion
curious.
I'm no more a lawyer than you are, but I thought that patent suits in
the USA could be filed anywhere where the defendant does substantial
business.
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
Tim Smith
2009-03-05 23:45:38 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
____/ Alan Mackenzie on Thursday 05 March 2009 16:35 : \____
Post by Alan Mackenzie
Post by Doug Mentohl
'Software Tree LLC claims that JBoss infringes on its database patent
for "exchanging data and commands between an object oriented system and
a relational system." Software Tree's partners include Microsoft, and
that the suit was filed in Eastern Texas, which is known as a
plaintiff's paradise for patent actions."'
Just as an aside, wouldn't it be a smart move for high tech companies to
avoid doing business in Eastern Texas, so that they'd couldn't be patent
trolled there? If enough companies boycotted that place, they might fix
their legal setup.
Post by Doug Mentohl
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/04/1615250
Would that exempt them from litigation? IANAL, so I find this suggestion
curious.
The posters you quote are overlooking a couple of things.

1. EDT is not a "plaintiff's paradise" in terms of results. Defendants
have been doing quite well there the last couple of years.

2. It *is* a plaintiff's paradise in terms of speed. The courts there
are familiar with patent litigation (which is one of the more
complicated forms of litigation), and aren't busy with a lot of other
stuff, and so patent suits move fast. Plaintiffs generally like
that--but so do defendants, so it is also a defendant's paradise.

A lawsuit is very disruptive for both parties. Pretty much anyone, not
matter what side they are on, would rather have a suit that takes 2
years in a far away district like EDT than a suit that takes 4 years in
a nearby district.

Before EDT was the big patent case district, it was some district in the
vicinity of Virginia--I forget which one. That one became a big patent
district because the head judge, who is responsible for assigning and
scheduling cases, started giving favorable scheduling to patent cases,
and so people started picking that district. He did that because, as I
mentioned earlier, patent cases are complex. That's good for the people
of the district. A patent case means a lot of lawyers compared to an
average case, and more expert witnesses, and longer trials--which means
a lot more out of area visitors booking expensive local hotel rooms.
And not just rooms--they will book giant meeting rooms, and set up a
couple dozen work areas, complete with computers, a dedicated, expensive
internet link. The people handling witness prep will be deciding at the
last minute that they don't like the clothes a witness brought, and so
will go out to the local clothing stores, and buy the witness a couple
new, custom fitted suits. (I came out of the trial where I was a
witness with four new suits and a dozen ties). I could go on, but
suffice it to say that a patent trial can bring quite a nice boost to
the local economy.

EDT became a big patent case district because of judge Ward. I believe
one of the last cases he was involved with before becoming a judge was a
patent case, although he was not a patent attorney. He enjoyed the
complexity of the case, and so when he became a judge, he sought out
patent cases. That attracted more patent cases, and so the other judges
in the district got experience with them. There isn't much federal
crime in EDT compared to many other districts, which also helps.
(Federal criminal cases take scheduling priority, because of the
Constitutional right to a speedy trial for accused criminals. In some
districts, such as ones where a lot of drug cases arise, it is very hard
to get any civil case on the calendar).

Lately, though, some companies that have filed in EDT before (Acacia,
for one) have been filing elsewhere, so there are signs another district
might be becoming the next patent hot spot.
--
--Tim Smith
AES
2009-03-06 00:40:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Smith
Before EDT was the big patent case district, it was some district in the
vicinity of Virginia--I forget which one. That one became a big patent
Known as the "Rocket Docket", if this is the district I've heard about.
Ben Pfaff
2009-03-06 01:08:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Smith
A lawsuit is very disruptive for both parties. Pretty much anyone, not
matter what side they are on, would rather have a suit that takes 2
years in a far away district like EDT than a suit that takes 4 years in
a nearby district.
Why would I want a suit to be far away? Won't it be far more
expensive and inconvenient to litigate in a far-away district
than a nearby one?
--
Ben Pfaff
http://benpfaff.org
Tim Smith
2009-03-08 04:28:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ben Pfaff
Post by Tim Smith
A lawsuit is very disruptive for both parties. Pretty much anyone, not
matter what side they are on, would rather have a suit that takes 2
years in a far away district like EDT than a suit that takes 4 years in
a nearby district.
Why would I want a suit to be far away? Won't it be far more
expensive and inconvenient to litigate in a far-away district
than a nearby one?
You don't want it to be far away. But you also don't want it to take a
long time to reach trial. If you have to give on one of these, you will
want to give on the first.

Between the time you file and the time it goes to trial, both sides are
busy with discovery, and with preparing their cases. From the point of
view of an engineer at a software company who is a witness in the case,
there are four main things that happen during this phase:

1. Depositions. Depositions are taken were convenient for the witness.
You can be deposed near your home, no matter where the suit is filed.
That's what I chose for both of my depositions.

2. Discovery. You will have to go through all your documents, both
paper and online, finding relevant documents to answer the other side's
discovery requests. This, of course, takes place at your office, and
your home if you ever take work home, so, like depositions, is not
affected by where the suit is filed.

3. Phone calls with and/or meetings with lawyers. This can get kind of
annoying--they will be writing some document that has to be filed at
midnight, and call you three hours before it is due, needing to know the
answer to some highly technical question involving 10 year old code, for
a product that's been off the market 8 years, and need you to answer,
quickly. (And it may not even be code you worked on--you may simply be
the person still around who worked closest to it).

4. You ordinary day to day activities are disrupted. You can't throw
anything out that might remotely have something to do with the case.
You aren't supposed to read any outside commentary on the case. You
need to study your old code to be ready for questions (see #3). Our
conference room because a document storage area, making meetings
annoying.

Depositions and discovery end at some fixed point. The phone calls from
the lawyers and the disruptions continue all the way up until the trial.
The lawyers are going to continue fiddling with the case, right up until
the time of trial, so if you file in a district where it takes 3 years
to reach trial, instead of a district where it takes one year, you have
to put up with this stuff for 3 years instead of one.

When it is time for trial, you will have to go to where the trial is,
and stay in a hotel until the trial is done. You will probably have to
do this even if the trial is local. In the case I was involved with,
they told me that even if we filed in Seattle (a short drive and a ferry
ride away from where I live), I would have to go to a hotel--they would
not want me going home every night, and maybe trying to sneak in some
work from the office. They don't want that--they want people at the
trial to be fully thinking about the trial. Also, the lawyers are
constantly tweaking their case, all through the trial (e.g., at ours,
the other side managed to bring up something unanticipated, so our side
had to spend an hour the next day dealing with that--and since we only
have 14 hours total, they had to rework a fair bit of their remaining
arguments to stay in the tie limit). They need everyone nearby in case
they need their help.

So as far as expenses due to trial location goes, really the only
difference between local and far away are the travel costs, and that's
almost insignificant compared to the other costs. No way are travel
costs going to be enough to counterbalance the costs of having the suit
take a year or two longer to reach trial. So, in almost all cases, you
are better off filing where you can get the speediest trial, rather than
filing locally.
--
--Tim Smith
Continue reading on narkive:
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WHOEVER CAN COME UP WITH THE LONGEST ANSWER WINS?
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